Dean Carter on work that gives back more than it takes

What this conversation is about

Dean Carter has spent more than three decades as a change agent in corporate human resources, including a celebrated run at Patagonia, where he reshaped HR around what he calls a regenerative employee experience. When he joined Glenn Llopis on Personalization Outbreak, he was Chief Purpose Officer at Guild, a B Corp that helps working people get education and move up in their careers.

He and Glenn talk about why so many people came out of the pandemic asking what they are really here for, how a real purpose differs from a slogan on the wall, and why the most revealing question on an engagement survey may be one that almost nobody asks.

The edit

Carter grew up in the 1980s, when success meant collecting as many toys as possible. The long isolation of the pandemic changed that for many people, he says: they now want meaningful work, meaningful friendships and meaningful time with their families. But many workplaces are still built to take as much as they can:

"So actually nature of work is killing people because it's extractive." — Dean Carter · 00:17:12

He compares the annual performance review to a traditional harvest: the company takes the crop and tears up the ground, and people need months to recover. Glenn named what that kind of workplace costs a person:

"When you work in highly standardized environments that don't care about purpose, people lose their identity in the process." — Glenn Llopis · 00:24:31

How he claimed his purpose

Carter's purpose came from a lesson his father taught him as a boy in Texas. He had borrowed a neighbor's lawnmower to mow lawns and returned it covered in grass with an empty tank. His dad sent him back to clean it and fill it up, because what others kindly lend you should come back better than you found it.

"Well, my fundamental purpose in my life is to leave things better than I find 'em." — Dean Carter · 00:06:49

Patagonia taught him what a real company purpose feels like: not a slogan, but something people act on every day. So when he joined Guild, he put purpose in his title. He also turned his purpose into a survey question: as a result of working for this company, does it give back equal value to my life? He tested it at Patagonia, then again at Guild:

"We did the survey again and we found out that question correlated more to engagement, energy levels and belonging than any of the 72 other questions that we asked." — Dean Carter · 00:06:49

What leaders and organizations can take from it

Carter's answer to extractive work is a regenerative one. Instead of squeezing as much discretionary effort as possible out of people, ask whether working here gives back more life than it takes. Flexibility is part of that. People have children at home, sick parents and health scares, and a long-term view of each employee makes room for the ebb and flow of life.

Purpose matters even when a company is struggling. At Sears and Kmart, a business his HR team knew was in decline, he gave the team a purpose of its own:

"We are going to be the band on the Titanic. We are going to be the best dang band ever." — Dean Carter · 00:30:43

He promised his people they would leave better than they arrived, and he still remembers it as an incredible experience for the whole team.

• Make purpose real, not a slogan. A real purpose explains why the company exists and guides decisions every day.
• Measure what work gives back. Ask employees whether the company adds value to their lives, not only how much effort they give.
• Keep work human as technology grows. Knowledge will be everywhere; what people add is the wisdom to navigate paradoxes that have no clear right answer.

"I just think that we hire humans. We don't hire robots, and that's a good thing because we're going to robotize a bunch of stuff." — Dean Carter · 00:25:05

How this conversation connects to Glenn's methodology

Glenn's body of work comes down to one idea: without agency and without knowing the rooms where you belong, you can't have the conviction to reinvent yourself on purpose, or the strong identity that guides how you live and lead. Carter shows what happens when an organization treats purpose as the room people get to work in.

• Agency (the Individual). Choosing a personal purpose, to leave things better than you find them, and letting it shape your work.
• The rooms (the Environment). Workplaces that give back more than they take, instead of extracting people until there is little left.
• Conviction and reinvention on purpose. Even inside a company in decline, a team can decide who it will be.
• Identity that guides how he lives and leads. Putting purpose in his own title, and building HR around the people it serves.

See the body of work behind the method →