Gisel Ruiz on why conformity costs an organization its best people

What this conversation is about

Gisel Ruiz spent 26 years at Walmart, in operations and human resources roles across Walmart US, Walmart International and Sam’s Club, and retired as its Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer. She joined Glenn Llopis and co-host Scott Lacy on Personalization Outbreak in the summer of 2020.

The timing matters. This was recorded in the middle of the pandemic and the social unrest of that summer, and the conversation moves between what leaders do when everything is chaotic and what an organization throws away when it asks people to be the same.

Standardizing people is the waste

Ruiz starts by clearing up what people get wrong about personalization. It is not a generational argument; it follows directly from taking difference seriously:

"Why would you try to standardize people's points of view or styles or approaches to business challenges? You really want to find a way to empower each of them to be the most authentic self in any type of environment." — Gisel Ruiz · 00:02:28

Her reason is plain. To extract the greatest value from the diversity among us, you have to allow people to be themselves.

Glenn asked why organizations built on standardization feel so threatened by this. Ruiz answers with human nature: we gravitate toward the familiar, and much of the molding leaders do is not even conscious. It takes deliberate effort to let the person across the table be fully themselves. The cost lands on both sides:

"young, talented individuals are trying to model their leaders. Well, you're actually taking away from yourself and what you can bring to the table by doing that" — Gisel Ruiz · 00:04:00

She also names the fear underneath the resistance: if you get to be your full self, does that mean I have to change?

Later, Scott Lacy put to her the word most operators defend instinctively: efficiency. Ruiz, who ran an operation of enormous scale, does not treat it as the opposite of difference:

"actually efficiency is not conforming. Letting people be themselves. Uh, you know, not having to work so hard to be the same" — Gisel Ruiz · 00:42:30

The definition has not changed, she says; the perspective on it has. We associate efficiency with same and similar, when what it should mean is that nobody is spending energy on the performance of sameness. On profit she is equally direct: there is a new standard for what the public expects, and profit cannot come at the expense of goodwill and humanity. When Glenn suggested that doing this properly might slow a company down, she pushed back on the spot. A company can be profitable and do good work; it is not an either or.

Leading in chaos

Pressed for what leaders should do when the ground is moving, Ruiz gives three things. Be the calm in the storm, because if you take on the personality of the chaos around you, so will everyone following you. Do not lose sight of the long term while firefighting. And keep a pulse on engagement: it is fast to disappear into a bunker with your senior team, but you have to bring people along.

She holds a high standard for how leaders act on social injustice, and for herself, but will not put someone down for a genuine effort. Her test for an organization is the question she puts to her mentoring circles: do you believe all people are created equal, yes or no? If the answer is yes, then do your decisions and the way your organization operates reinforce that yes, or move you toward no?

Twenty-six years of undervaluing herself

Glenn asked what she learned as a Latina rising into the C-suite at a company of that size. Her answer is not about obstacles, but about a habit she kept catching in herself:

"the constant lesson throughout my career was that I was undervaluing myself and my contributions, what I thought that I was contributing was just my job." — Gisel Ruiz · 00:50:32

She credits leaders who saw something in her she had not recognized herself. What she considered simply doing her job was seen as extraordinary, and it opened the doors that shaped her career. She traces the habit to a culture of humility, and is direct about what it costs younger professionals:

"you assume that that conformity is required in order for you to succeed or to survive even. Uh, and that's not the case." — Gisel Ruiz · 00:51:46

Which is where the advice to her own assistant manager trainee self comes from, and it is the line at the top of this page: lean into who you are, even harder.

Being discovered is the leader’s job

If she had to be discovered, Glenn asked, what should leaders do about the talent they have not found? Ruiz gives two steps. Stay connected, because a small circle puts you in front of the same faces. Then act, and create the opportunity for that person to shine. She rejects the usual word for this:

"I don't even want to use the word empower because empowering, it's a subtle way of saying I'm giving you power. No, no, you have the power." — Gisel Ruiz · 00:53:40

The leader’s part is to create the situation where someone gets to present, to speak, to be seen, and it does not have to be a grand stage. She adds a caveat: if they trip and fall, you have to be okay with that, because that part is on you.

Glenn named what she had just handed the audience:

"getting discovered isn't just the individual's opportunity or responsibility I should say. It's actually more so the leaders." — Glenn Llopis · 00:56:35

Her closing thought is what got her out of bed for 26 years: the chance to bring out the best in someone and watch them grow. You are not giving anything up, she says, when you give the power to your people.